Your thoughts & comments regarding this draft document would be very welcome indeed. It's little more than a collection of research at the moment, and an graphic interpretation. There are several avenues of supporting evidence buried further in the text that need further elaboration, but you'll get the idea. Thanks for your time.
Peace.
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March 10 2004, 07:17:49 UTC 8 years ago
I will comment more when I have time - but am glad you are posting these things!
March 10 2004, 07:23:52 UTC 8 years ago
Thanks for the feedback.
March 10 2004, 21:53:25 UTC 8 years ago
i'd be interested to see what research you have done linking the tree of life model to the sefer yetsirah, which is much older. I always thought that reading the sefer yetsirah in terms of the much later tree of life model was an anachronism, but do let me know.
a dude name David A. Hulse wrote a book treating the same idea a little while ago, called "New Dimensions for the Cube of Space: The Path of Initiation Revealed by the Tarot upon the Qabalistic Cube" sorta hokey, very ungainly title, but IIRC he treats some history of the geometric views of the TOL
March 11 2004, 00:08:51 UTC 8 years ago
Thanks very much.
how is it a new perspective?
I think perhaps you need to take a look at the diagram again, in particular, the placement and arrangement of the sephira. This isn't a cube of space that I'm proposing. This is an isometric projection using a 'standard' tree construction, involving a allocation of the sephira that is not the common top-down ordering.
i'd be interested to see what research you have done linking the tree of life model to the sefer yetsirah
I admit that it's mainly speculative. That said, it's a very straightforward way to interpret the SY. The correspondances are too complete to be mere coincidence.
a dude name David A. Hulse wrote a book
Thanks for the reference.
Peace.
March 11 2004, 02:15:46 UTC 8 years ago
i agree that the isomorphic perspective is a straightforward interpretation, it's in fact what came to mind when i first read the hulse book. the cube idea is problematic because it is limiting, and troublesome to visualize, have to add a bunch of clunky vertexes, sides, faces, etc.
another interesting early 20th cent occult take on sefer yetsirah is by carlos suares
heres a couple more links
hypertext SY
http://www.psyche.com/psyche/yetsira/sy
general SY links
http://emol.org/para/seferyetzirah/sfli
March 11 2004, 02:35:35 UTC 8 years ago
You and me both. I'm working on it...
what specific parts of the text lead to the placement
Those passages quoted in the document are the crucial ones, although the whole SY text is so succinct and cohesive that it could all be said to support these attributions.
One quote I missed that is particularly interesting, at a detailed level:
Thanks for your input, and the links.
March 11 2004, 15:47:25 UTC 8 years ago
some free associating
i had been thinking recently about how to do a 3-d version of the golden dawn rose with the hebrew alphabet http://www.angelfire.com/ab6/imuhtuk/gdcould be used to make three dimensional sigils
also, crowley's unicurcsal hexagram kinda suggests an isometric version of the g.d. planetary hexagram ritual
another thing i came across a week or so ago was gareth knights book of "occult exercises" or something like that, what he called the "cube of space" exercise was simple "christ above me, christ below, ahead behind left right, etc." (or god above, or beauty below, etc)
one of my favorite rituals is the discordian cross: light in my head, fire in my genitals, strength on my right side, laughter on my left sife, love in my heart. could use a forward and backwards part. any suggestions?
March 12 2004, 17:33:20 UTC 8 years ago
Re: some free associating
Anyone know the origins of this?
Discordain Cross: Ashtray in front, comfy cushion behind?
March 12 2004, 16:54:44 UTC 8 years ago
Update
Please note that the document in question has been extensively updated, including a plainer statement of the argument, and a draft including hebrew characters that has opened a new realm of visual clues and symmetries.Thank you all for your time, interest and valuable comments. Any and all feedback always welcome.
Peace.
March 12 2004, 22:39:42 UTC 8 years ago
Re: some free associating
that's close to the version ra wilson gives in historical illuminatus chronicles book 1, but R+G are switched.goes at least as far back as the LBRP in Golden Dawn knowledge lecture one, not sure where they got the correspondences though (levi? barrett? agrippa?)
13. Before me Raphael�
14. Behind me Gabriel
15. On my right hand, Michael
16. On my left hand, Auriel
(from http://www.angelfire.com/ab6/imuhtuk/gd
i would say kate bush got turned around, but that would put mike on the left...
March 19 2004, 08:46:52 UTC 8 years ago
2 cents in a blur
First, I'd like to see references. Where do you get the material to ponder on? What translation, etc. Otherwise, it's as promosing an attempt as any to fresh up an old idea by imposing a new one over it.My initial resistance would arise from the chosen model and correspondences - which do not stretch too far back in time, and certainly not back to the book of formation. From what tradition is your "Traditional Tree" ?
Second, I would need question the reference to the 3, 7 and twelve - or rather, how you argue just this placing. (I find it more intriguing that the first illustration, if you just connect the dots - ignoring the extra point at the bottom - get a figure giving three horizontal lines, seven vertical, and twelve diagonal.)
March 19 2004, 10:52:16 UTC 8 years ago
Re: 2 cents in a blur
First, I'd like to see references.My reference works have been the various translations of the Sepher Yetzirah, linked to in the Notes.
My initial resistance would arise from the chosen model and correspondences - which do not stretch too far back in time, and certainly not back to the book of formation.
I'm not sure I understand. Is your resistance to the Model itself? I certainly plan to apply the system to the older Lurianic layout, and I'm confident that it'll work just as well. The correspondances are straight out of the SY, and nowhere else.
From what tradition is your "Traditional Tree" ?
None in particular. As far as I can establish, all current trees use the numerical top-down approach to allocating the Sephira, thus all traditional trees will look like this. The Lurianic tree will look a little different, but the principle remains.
the reference to the 3, 7 and twelve - or rather, how you argue just this placing
The placements of the 3/7/12 follow directly and relative to the placement of the 10. Once you have placed North, placing North Upper (for example) is pretty straightforward.
Many thanks for your excellent questions, I really appreciate the input from everyone. Any and all further comments, questions, observations etc very welcome indeed.
Peace.